Talk:Riven/@comment-8733289-20131108173707/@comment-5707860-20131113010834
@lyzeUH lets go into that situation then. Riven starts her Q off, most usually will also follow with a W for extra damage and the guaranteed AA without testing the Jax's reaction. Jax presses E. what do you do as the Riven player at this moment? seeing as you said you would hold on to ur second and third Q's to "zone" im assuming you would run away until his E is down. all while the Jax chases and takes free AA shots at you along the way until the stun goes down. the stun goes down, you are stunned for 1 second while Jax walks away. option 1: you want to fight him, you are forced to use the remaining two charges to catch him with only the last one hitting him and knocking him up since he was given a stun lead. if you do so you are now in his minion line taking damage from his minions along with him. since you are charged up from your passive your AA will hit harder but Jax also has a passive if you stay in the line AA'ing he slowly gets the next AA a little bit quicker everytime. you have a minion line as well but a good portion of their damage was negated when he chased you while his E was up. option 2: now lets go to the other option and say you dont chase the Jax. you simply start your Q and got a free AA in and he pressed E, got an AA in and the stun and walked away. you are now free to "zone" him. you have to use up second charge within 1 second (explained below) and your third chage within the last 4 second but let me ask you, do you CS? if you cs a minion you lose a passive charge and become less threatening to the Jax. if you dont CS and simply keep the passive charge for the fight, you will do slightly more damage. but then what was the point of zoning him in the first place if not to get a CS advantage? to continue, lets say you use your second charge to keep your Q going but only hit air since he didnt approach you after the first one. you are down to your last Q and he goes in to CS a melee minion. you knock both Jax and the melee minions up and did damage to them along with drawing arrgo from the caster and melee minions. the minion line becomes slightly pushed since they are attacking Riven and not the other minions along with taking AOE damage. if you managed to follow the full train of thought, good for you. i am open to any counterstatement if you feel i erred anywhere. the above situation is only at the early lvls, post 6 an even Jax wins most duels against Riven simply through how strong his kit is. all my experiences on "decent" Jaxes were from Gold in S2 and Gold-Plat from S3. and lastly about the timer on Rivens Q "She can hold her first Q for 4 seconds, second Q for another 4 seconds...she basically can have her Q to be active for ~8 seconds but Q's overall cd is 13s so there really is only ~5 seconds where her Q is not up..." that is wrong in the sense of how much time Riven actually has to zone out Jax she has 8 seconds but she doesnt really have 8 seconds. Riven uses her first Q, you now have 4seconds to use the second Q but you hold it since you see Jax use his stun. Jax presses E, his dodge is 2 seconds + 1 second for his stun. Riven now only has 1 second left to use her second Q or else lose them all together.